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Interview with Beth Sasseen
Copyright © 1998. All Rights Reserved
As webmaster for ilmfan.com, I get a lot of mail. And in those email's, I get a lot of questions. And a lot of the time the main question is "How can I work for ILM? I'm willing to prostitute myself, work for free...anything". Well, I cannot help you get a job at ILM. But, as it turns out, I can help get your job related questions answered by ILM. So with the help of ILM, I recently I had the honor of speaking with Beth Sasseen, Recruiting Supervisor for the ILM Computer Graphics Department. I took questions from you, the ILM fans out there, passed them along to her. Below is the transcript of the complete interview. Enjoy, and feel free to give your feedback at the end of the interview.
thefan: Thanks for helping with this Q/A Session. Please give a brief introduction to yourself.
BS: Beth Sasseen, CG Recruiting Supervisor. My background is in live-action production in Los Angeles before moving back to Northern California to be closer to my family. I've worked at ILM for three years.
thefan: Please give an introduction to ILM.
BS: ILM was founded by George Lucas in 1975 to create the special effects for Star Wars. Since then ILM has been involved in the creation of special effects for hundreds of feature films as well as commercials. The work done at ILM has garnered 14 Academy Awards, 12 Technical Achievement Awards, as well as numerous commercial awards.
thefan: Where are the located?
BS: Marin County, just north of San Francisco.
thefan: Is that the only ILM Studio location?
BS: Yes.
thefan: Number of employees?
BS: Over 1000.
thefan: I'll ask questions myself, and also be feeding you an eclectic list of other questions from other ILM fans and ilmfan.com visitors. First, since we were just introducing ILM, I had a question. I was reading an article recently, I believe it was an interview with Scott Ross (ex-ILM'er), now CEO at Digital Domain. He suggested that Digital Domain was very "artistic feeling", that an artist would feel very at home there. I've had the fortune of touring Pixar and had the same feeling there. They have this incredible space, where all of the animators work. It just looks like a really fun place to work. Anyway, Ross continues to say that ILM has a "professional" feeling, and is much more straight laced. I took it as kind of a slam at ILM, but my question is; How would you describe the atmosphere at ILM?
BS: I would describe it to be more "campus-like." At any given time, we may have 10 feature films, and an equivalent number of commercials in production. It's much like a film studio with many projects being simultaneously being shot, and in various stages of productions. We have many well-established departments all working together to complete projects on time. Just to name a FEW, we have a very art department that comes up with innovative conceptual art and storyboards to lay the foundation of the work we do; a model shop that can create just about any miniature or macquette needed, a stage and camera engineering department that knows intricate details about visual effects photography - be it for background plates or elements; and a very smoothly running editorial and scanning department that tracks and digitizes specific shots to be delivered to the CG artists. From that point, the cg and digital matte artists do their magic. It's through the team effort of departments such as these that enable us to make the best visual effects. Each production works as a closely knit team together for weeks or over a year to complete their projects. With a wide variety of projects under one roof, computer graphic artists are able to work on projects that most suit their creative and artistic interests.
thefan: Let's get to the fan questions (name and age is noted before each question):
(Mark): How many people apply for positions each year?
BS: Human Resources can get up to 10,000 unsolicited resumes a year (approx. 200 a week). The computer graphics recruiting department gets approximately 30-50 reels and/or resumes a week (averaged over the year). I have over 7,000 records in my artist database right now representing people from around the world who have submitted their work to us for review. It intensifies right after the New Year begins, around graduation dates, and around the dates of major conferences (like Siggraph).
thefan: And what percentage of those get hired?
BS: A very small number, but keep in mind we have tripled in size in the last five years. The percentage may be small compared to the size of the company, but in actuality, the number of artists we hire is quite significant.
thefan: What percentage of ILM new employees get hired without industry experience?
BS: For the digital artist positions, a very small number of people get hired without industry experience. You shouldn't be discouraged by that though. This isn't necessarily the best place to land right out of school. There's some great experiences to be had at smaller, more generalist types of facilities where you can develop your abilities to work on a team, within a deadline and a budget, learn to solve problems on the fly, etc.
(Dave Johnson, 23): What is the average salary for a computer animator at ILM?
BS: While I can't give you a specific number, our salaries are competitive. Keep in mind too, that we are governed by a union so the salary scales also reflect what the union requires us to pay our employees.
(Prasava Nassif, 34): Under what conditions would you consider having an unpaid volunteer work at ILM?
BS: We don't have volunteer employees at ILM, but we do have three separate (summer, fall, spring) internships during the year. For more information on this, check out the ILM webpage.
thefan: Me, the consensus out there is that ILM must have so many people apply for jobs, that the pay is below the industry norm. This last question explains it. I think there is probably a lot of people who would work for free to work at ILM. So how come you don't take free labor?
BS: My goal as a recruiter is to find the most qualified individuals to fill the openings we have available. We are looking to offer job opportunities and fair compensation to qualified individuals, not to simply fill empty seats.
thefan: Me, With all of the resumes you get each day, why does ILM continue to advertise for Character Animators (I noticed the ILM ad in Cinefex 74)?
BS: We're always looking for talented artists. Simply having a resume or knowing a software program does not automatically make you able to do the type of character animation we ask of our digital Character Animators.
thefan: Are good Character Animators that hard to find?
BS: Yes. Good character animators are extremely difficult to find.
(Derek Smith, 29): How about practical info on living in Marin County? Good and bad points.
BS: The San Francisco Bay Area is one of the greatest places to live because there are many different kinds of communities. Depending on your desired type of housing, what you do socially, whether or not you have a family, etc., it's all here. It can be expensive and affordable housing may be difficult to find, but if you can make it work, the Bay Area is the best!
(Serge Nevshupov, 28): Does ILM hire foreign people who do not have native knowledge of English?
BS: ILM has hired people in creative and technical roles from almost 40 different countries. All non-English speaking nationals at ILM have a good ability to communicate in English. Productions work very closely as a team, and the ability to communicate subtle nuances is extremely important, especially when you consider that all images are created first through a verbal description.
thefan: I'm always amazed at the amount of ILM fans around the world, does ILM hire foreigners often?
BS: Yes, we have hired many foreigners who have gained valuable experience at visual effects or character houses outside of the United States. They often have a well-rounded background, so it's easy for them to focus in on an area of interest/talent when they come to ILM.
thefan: Let's move to schooling.
(John Russell, 17): What college courses and/or major should I obtain to work as an animator?
BS: It depends. The term "animator" is sort of a generic term for anyone doing digital work. At ILM (as well as other facilities where roles tend to be more specialized), there are character animators and what we call technical directors. Character animators focus on the performance of the character or creature; how it is brought to life and given emotion and movement. Technical directors tend to have more technical skills in the way of lighting, compositing, shading, texturing, etc. The school you choose depends on the general direction you want to go. Character animation seems to be the buzz in the industry now and, as a result, there are many schools who say they'll teach you to animate. The problem is that in these programs, they are neglecting to teach people about the movement and force of the element being animated. Rather, they teach you a software and dub you a character animator. Few people have the inherent ability to animate something well without a significant amount of training. This, in my opinion, is probably where most of the struggling character animators get stuck.
thefan: Digital Domain and Pixar both have lists of recommended schools on there websites. Does ILM have a short list of schools they could suggest?
BS: We have one as well and will be putting it on our website soon. The schools listed on Pixar and DD's lists are likely to be on our list too.
(For a complete list of schools recommended by ILM, look here)
thefan: Another topic I seem to get a lot of questions about is demo reels. How much does the demo reel content affect your chances of getting a job?
BS: A demo reel is pivotal to the success or failure of someone being hired into a creative role. For the less creative roles, there's little to no emphasis on the demo reel.
(Scott McGuirk, 25): I attended the siggraph panel "Dis-Illusion of Life", where they discussed the different types of Character Animation in the industry. Please describe more clearly the type of character animator ILM is looking for?
BS: Someone who can realistically breath life into a character; giving a CG model a "soul" through movement.
(Manuel Alducin): A lot of the industry focuses on character animators, but what is ILM looking for in a Technical Director demo reel?
BS: The role of the technical director is the finished look of a shot where CG elements have been integrated into a live-action plate. Given that is their mission, it would be great to see the entirety of the process: background plate, cg element that's going to be integrated into the scene, other elements that will give it its sense of realism (explosions or whatever), subtle lighting and shadowing, realistic textures, etc. The finished look is what we're looking for. Are the light sources natural to the surroundings or do we look at it and say "Oh, that looks CG." Does it look as though the model is standing in the middle of a stadium where the lights are on for a night game, not allowing the subtleties of the shadows in the scene? Things like that. It's always great to see the "before and after."
(Peter Lake, 21): What is more impressive on a demo reel 2D or 3D work?
BS: If you're looking for a role in 2D then 2D work should be on your reel. If you're looking for a job in 3D, then 3D work. Either way, it's the quality of the work that is MOST impressive.
(Yusuke Sato, 26): I am interested in joining the software development section of ILM, what languages are required and what skills might be helpful.
BS: Here's the job description given out during Siggraph in Orlando: CG Software Developers - This R & D role designs, develops, maintains and documents state of the art interactive and batch application programs in a C++/Motif/Open GL-based environment to meet leading edge visual effects production requirements.
(Serge Nevshupov, 28): Is UNIX still a requirement for many ILM jobs?
BS: UNIX is required for all positions in the cg digital production group as well as the technical support and software development roles in our digital technologies group. The ONLY exception to this are the traditionally trained cel animators. We will train them to use UNIX as it is their ability to do character animation well that gets them the job.
(Evan R. Driscoll, 26): What does it take to get an entry-level storyboarding workbook job at ILM?
BS: We are just now developing a storyboarding/workbook department due to some work we have in development here on upcoming projects. If you are interested in hearing how to apply for one of these types of positions, please call the art dept. submission guidelines number at 415-460-2688 for details.
(J??y Hernalesteen, 18): Is it possible to get in ILM after architecture studies?
BS: One of the best programs for Assistant technical directors is the Visualization Lab at Texas A&M which is a part of the School of Architecture. Graduates from that program tend to be very well rounded in their abilities to light a scene, hack through a program, pull together the pieces of a project in a team environment, etc.
thefan: Yes, what percentage of current ILM employees did not have CG/Visual Effects background when they were hired?
BS: Studies in cg or visual effects is evident in those who have been hired in the last five years. The bottom line isn't the type of degree, but rather, the quality of your work. The type of degree, without a reel, gives me a sense of your interest in doing visual effects or cg work but, in the end, if your reel isn't very good, it doesn't matter what degree you have.
thefan: Last question, any final words of encouragement to the ILM fans out there? Any last bits of advice?
BS: Absolutely.
I know it's going to sound corny but you're all interested in this industry for a reason: it's what drives you. That's an important element of ANY career so keep that in mind as you experience the elation's and disappointments.
Be sure to have a real serious talk with yourself about how much you're willing to do for the sake of this work as it's not the easiest industry in which to work. If you're devoted to a 9-5 career, than this won't work for you. It's an extremely fickle industry which goes through it's hot and cold times and can be susceptible to lay-offs, particularly in smaller shops that ramp-up and down with the flow the projects. If that makes you nervous then you might want to reconsider. If you like working alone and being the master of your creative vision, then a larger crew-driven production facility may not be the place for you. The more attractive side is that you are working on cool images, side-by-side with fun, creative, solution-oriented people working towards the same goal. There's nothing better, in my opinion.
If your goal is to be a visual effects supervisor or animation director in two years, you're likely to be disappointed.
If you don't find yourself being recruited right away out of school to one of the major companies, don't despair. Try to make all of your experiences good ones for yourself and be patient. Work at your craft. Your professional life is a long, evolving process. Enjoy each step for what it can offer you.
In the junior roles, you're probably more likely to be able to ask questions and volunteer to do things that a more senior person. These are great opportunities for you to educate yourself.
Don't "expect" anything. Have a good attitude. There's nothing that turns off a manager more than someone whose attitude exceeds their ability. Look for the opportunities to build your knowledge, whether or not it relates directly to what you do. Don't be in a rush to be king of the hill.
Realize that the best way to find this type of work is to move to where the work is. If you don't live near one of the centers of visual effects or character animation work then you'd better get there if you have the opportunity. It's like wanting to be an actor but living in a small town somewhere in the middle of the country. You increase your chances of getting work simply because the number of opportunities increase when living in an industry center. You can't expect a company to take a chance on you if you can't prove that you're able to do the work, and you can't prove you can do the work without exposure to those opportunities. The stakes are too high, no matter how nice you are or how much you claim to know, to take a chance on someone whose abilities are unproven. To get that experience, you need to be where the action is. I grew up in Northern California, moved to LA for five years following college because I knew that most of my opportunities in film production would be there. I had numerous opportunities almost immediately. Once I got my foot in the door, I was regularly employed. My point here is to emphasize how valuable it is to be where the industry occurs.
Finally, please know that it's just as difficult for us to say no to you as it is for you to hear it. We realize that you have put a great deal of effort into creating your demo reel and resume. The important thing to realize is that if you aren't successful in your goal of working at ILM or any of the other larger visual effects and/or character animation houses, there are opportunities in like-industries such as game development, television cartoons, comic books, website development and more. These and others may be a great fit for your lifestyle, your skills and the other elements that make us happy, productive people. It's a tough industry, but it can be very rewarding too. Good luck and remember to enjoy what you do.
thefan: I apologize to all of the people who submitted questions that were not asked. Please check out ILM's HR website for more information on applying for a position at ILM.